A friend passed on an article in the Guardian Unlimited that featured a haunting video of a teenage girl being flogged by a Taliban member in Swat Valley, [see YouTube video above]. According to the news agency, “The two-minute video, shot using a mobile phone, shows a burka-clad woman face down on the ground. Two men hold her arms and feet while a third, a black-turbaned fighter with a flowing beard, whips her repeatedly.” In the clip, the girl continuously cried out in pain, begging, “Please stop it…Either kill me or stop it now.” The woman received 34 lashes.
The Guardian reportedly reached Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan by phone, who confirmed the incident, noting, “She came out of her house with another guy who was not her husband, so we must punish her. There are boundaries you cannot cross.” Added The Guardian, “He defended the Taliban’s right to thrash women shoppers who were inappropriately dressed, saying it was permitted under Islamic law.”
The news agency received the mobile phone video from Samar Minallah, a Pathan documentary filmmaker and anthropologist who lived in Swat for two years in the late 1990s. It has since been passed between Swat residents by mobile phones. The incident reportedly occurred in the last ten days, and Minallah told the Guardian, “This video is being widely circulated because the Taliban want people to see it. They want to give the message that this is taking place after the peace deal because this is something they ideologically believe in.”
The Guardian added, “Local sources including journalists and human rights workers, some of whom declined to be identified, confirmed the video was recent, although estimates of its timing varied between one and three weeks ago. The Taliban spokesman said it predated the peace deal.”
Regardless of whether the video was filmed before or after the peace deal, the images shook me. The sight of a young girl crying out as she was beaten literally made my stomach turn. If this did occur after the peace deal, then I ask our politicians to look at Mullah Fazlullah‘s warped version of Islamic law that they have legitimized in our country, as they sit in the comfort and safety of their homes, untouched by the screams and whimpers of other men and women just like her. The Guardian also cited a Swat official with the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, Sher Muhammad Khan, who stated, “They have committed so many atrocities since the peace deal. They have taken entire control of the district. There is nobody to control them; they decide disputes according to their whims.”
I wrote this post yesterday, but I delayed posting it because I wanted to share a powerful and fitting song I listened to as I composed it, [see mp3 below]. Written and performed by my brother, an aspiring singer-songwriter, the chorus goes, “You will let me, keep what’s left outside/I will follow with the battles that we cry/We will let go of the secrets and the lies/FALLEN DAYS/These are FALLEN DAYS.” The lyrics and the feel of the song echoed my sentiments exactly. Tell me – how are we supposed to call for justice for the people of Swat – for girls like the one filmed here – when our government has essentially allowed for this legal system to be put in place? Can we help if our hands are tied?
Thanks to Five Rupees for posting the YouTube vid – I originally had it as a link to the video at the Guardian, but this is far more accessible.
This is the real face of the people who are suffering while our politicians continue to bicker and squabble over power.
SHAMEFUL AND HORRIFIC!!!!! And to think our leaders while fighting amongst themselves, have actually allowed these SAVAGES to come home to roost. Let’s not be in denial anymore. This IS happening in our neighborhood.
Mesh’s song gave me the goosebumps!! How very apt!
This all happened in the country we all call hope, I feel so ashamed today. But what really shocks me are those ppl who are justifying this act of barbarism and trying to compare it with the drone attacks. We need to eliminate Taliban culture and thinking from this country once and for all.
Btw, your bro shud go pro with his singing and guitar playing talents
“He defended the Taliban’s right to thrash women shoppers who were inappropriately dressed, saying it was permitted under Islamic law.”
This is unfortunately true… I hope someone out there can refute this.
Sura 24, Verse 2:
“The woman and the man
Guilty of fornication
Flog each of them
With a hundred stripes
And let a party of believers
Witness their punishment”
So these people actually think what they’re doing is morally justifiable. I mean, that verse is pretty black and white. So what’s the solution?
Personally I think progressive Islamic groups could do wonders in matters of propaganda, by speaking in favor of womens rights under the auspices of Islam… in the same way we see Christian pro-choice and pro-gay groups do wonders for convincing Christians not to be intolerant and radical in matters of abortion and gay marriage, and to ignore the verses of the Bible which explicitly preach intolerance.
I think progressive Islamic groups have spoken out, but they need to do more so now – and they need a powerful institution backing them.
But the question is how? The government’s peace deal has essentially legitimized these actions – what steps can be taken now to reverse those missteps?
And thanks, Ammar
He is super talented and just started his own publishing company, so you will be hearing a lot more from him inshallah. Here is his website for all his music – http://www.meshlakhani.com
Pakistan has certainly legitimized these actions. The country itself should never have even been partitioned from India in the first place. This nonsense would not be happening. I blame Mohammad Ali Jinnah.
I would suggest the war on terror (sorry, the “overseas contingency operation”) be extended to include military and diplomatic actions against any government which does not embrace secular values. People are free to practice any religion they want, no matter how crazy it might sound to some people. But they cross the line when they apply their religious beliefs to justify infringing on individual liberties of others. Liberties must be protected at all costs, even if it involves military operations (and marginal, unintentional collateral damage.)
HGW-
Regardless of what’s in the law – it matters who is using the law and interpreting it. The girl walked out of a house with a man – does that make her guilty of fornication?? Of adultery?? We don’t have to just question what is the law, but who is administering it, and who is delivering these punishments.
And while I appreciate your views, the unfortunate reality is that Pakistan hasn’t been secular since the 1970s and 1980s- when Islam went from the private to the public space. Religion has become entrenched in our public space – from the fact that our courts are both British common law and Islamic to our very constitution. The reality is that real secularism, where religion and government are completely separate, may not be possible in Pakistan’s present. But, that doesn’t mean there can’t be some compromises – and that there aren’t some kind of solutions to progress towards.
Well… suppose she WAS guilty of fornication. Would that justify it?
Again, it’s not black and white – first of all in Islamic law, if a woman has been accused of adultery [zina] for instance, she can only be punished if she [the convict] admits to the crime. And she has to confess it voluntarily. The zina part of the Hudood Ordinance was misused countless times before the Women’s Protection Bill, and it brings to just why this is NOT black and white, HGW. The law can be interpreted and mis-interpreted by the people in power – in patriarchal and misogynistic societies, it’s often misinterpreted, and women are often the victims.
I like to take a shot at answering HGW’s question. Fornication without marriage is seen as a sin in Islam. And yes, just like the punishment for stealing would be cutting of off one’s hands, that is true. Such is our religion.
But before you go doubting it, religion also makes it quite hard for the person(s) to be proven guilty. You need four witnesses or so and only reliable people are seen as witnesses.
So yes, the punishment is severe but it’s not meted out like candy the way the Taliban proscribe it. There is danger in everything taken to an extreme.
We agree that fornication is considered a crime in Islam. I’d like to ask two questions, if i may:
Do you personally believe that fornication should be punishable by law in the first place? (Secular governments do not)
Do you personally believe that a conviction of fornication, in full accordance with your understanding of the Islamic due process of law, should result in public flogging? (Secular governments do not)
I’d be very interested to know what others think as well
HGW,
No I do not think fornication should be punished by law – because I don’t agree with the full administration of Sharia law. And I DEFINITELY don’t agree with the punishment of public flogging. We are in the 21st century, and these practices are not only outdated, but they are full-on barbaric.
I can’t tell you how angry I am watching this video. These people should be publicly beaten for publicly beating a woman. I mean honestly, even if she was with another man, who cares! Its not the job of the public to punish her, she must live with her own sins. I agree with HGW about having policies that protect people from being violated of their human rights. Looking at these people is like watching something out of medieval times. Religion is always used as an excuse to control and trap people.
Great song btw.
This is one of the saddest things I’ve seen. I know this happens regularly but seeing it with my own eyes is heart wrenching. What’s even worse that it is her brother who is holding down her arms to uphold his “honor” in the village.
Kalsoom, I love the addition of the mp3 to the piece, it’s very appropriate to what has and continues to happen in our country.
Yawar, I don’t think Islam making to hard for someone to be proven guilty is doesn’t work in favor of raped woman. If a woman has been raped, doesn’t she need 4 witnesses to say that she was actually raped. That’s completely unacceptable and bizarre. Please let me know if I am wrong, I would like to know your thoughts.
Also @HGW quote from the Quran. Of course I don’t agree with this form of public punishment. However, in this case where these people are flogging this woman because it says so in the Quran, then they are only following half of it. Why isn’t the man being flogged as well. If the point is you can’t pick and choose who you flog. Taliban and all these Wahabi types use women as their source of suppression to keep control over the public and ignite fear.
Wonder if the Taliban in it can be punished under Sharia law, if only for skipping the whole trial bit. Of course would take a gutsy local judge and who would stick their neck out that far?
http://thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=73616
Atleast someone is doing something about it. To all the Musharraf lovers, the CJ is back. And hopefully he can set things straight.
As for the General, I hope he swallows a golf ball.
HGW,
Surah 24 v. 8 gives equal credence to the testimony of the woman:
“She shall be considered innocent if she swears by GOD four times that he is a liar.”
But you raise an interesting point regarding the “so what” factor. Should adultery be punishable with public flogging? In “secular” societies this kind of behavior does endure a public flogging in the figurative sense through the courts, or legal proceedings, from which guilty party’s credibility (or finances) rarely recovers from.
In Islam, while punishment is permissible–forgiveness is a greater tenant of the faith principles. In this case, forgiveness must take place after a genuine repentance (if the individual pleads guilty). Furthermore, forgiveness of the incident (or any crime in general against a victim) is always considered superior to seeking punishment, Surah 42 verse 40:
“Although the just requital for an injustice is an equivalent retribution, those who forgive and maintain righteousness are rewarded by God…”
Talking about Pakistan would be very naive and petty. While he Baitullah’s have eye’s on turning the world into what we see in this particular MMS, it would be foolish for the world to look the other way. These guys are already emboldened by their success against the army and the govt. in SWAT and are more aggressively focusing on urban cetres. Lahore is an open example of this. Does this planet deserve any of this? And why should it be forced down the peoples throats to swallow forcefully?
While some quarters are trying to distinguish the GOOD and BAD Taliban, but that is far from truth. This is what it is and this is what TALIBAN all about. Taliban, good or bad works on an ideology, the one we see in this video. Today when even animals have rights, such treatment to a human is the pits. The wails of this lady are heart rendering.
And am sorry to say, that there are educated people who have appreciated this act. I provide here a link of a discussion on one of the forums on an online social networking community. What is saddening is all participants in this shot discussion are Muslims.
http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs.aspx?cmm=1213213&tid=5319975152913605437&start=1
Kals, You may edit this part if you feel that it is inappropriate to post it here. But it is a harsh reality. There are people who justify such acts and give reasons for such Barbaric Behaviour in society.
Pakistan is in deep trouble, and the longer it takes to understand and identify this trouble and that it is within, the more difficult it is going to be for it to come out of it. Denying and blaming definitely not going to make situation any different.
Period.
@ HGW – My simple answer to you on your query of FORNICATION. And also to those who are vouching for the Sharia Law and the flogging part.
Fornication is a completely private matter for two adult individuals (of opposite Sex of course to be politicaly correct here) and you are partly right on the part of secular govt.s allowing it. I am all for it. It is my life and my decision.
What I would counter these guys is on one thing. While the world has come 1400 years from the time of formation of this law, why has the laws not been changed with times. I read somewhere “RELIGION IS FOR HUMANS and NOT VICE VERSA”. Seems its only a proverb or a jargon at best.
Besides, prior to all these the Neanderthals and stuff… what fornication laws were present? I mean if, you want to follow a law that is 1400 years old, then what is the harm in follwoing the ancestoral practises (or lack of it) like fornication with choice.
I think, what Mushy Claimed about being thrown back into stone age is coming true for Pakistan. Albeit, it is not his actions which are doing the job. The Stoneage laws are.
[...] url: “http://teabreak.pk/cell-phone-video-of-taliban-flogging-42/18498/” }); Read more at: CHUP! – Changing Up Pakistan 1990s, anthropologist, beard, boundaries, documentary filmmaker, guardian unlimited, islamic [...]
I realized it might be ridiculous to respond to the name Butters, therefore I’m changing to M, so people will hopefully respond to my comments….sad i know.
This is me responding. Welcome to the forum, M. Goodbye Butters. I shall miss your awesome name and South Park reference.
In that case I guess I will change my name to TIMMAY!! we have to have at least one south park reference in this blog.
ps everytime i read Butters’ comments the voice in my head would recite the comment in the South Park character’s voice. It was hard to take seriously, indeed.
Yawar, I mean I guess that’s good – but what is the CJ going to do? Bring every girl who has been flogged for committing a crime under the Taliban’s loose interpretation of Sharia?
Also, even though Malakand now has their qazi courts – does the Supreme Court still have authority above it? How does that work?
I thought it was against Islam for a ‘non – mehram’ [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-mehram] to touch a woman … I highly doubt this girl’s father and brothers got together to hold her down. My blood is boiling at this act and to think this is only one instance that has managed to leak out … I shudder at the thought of the others who continue to suffer through this torture in silence!
Kals, I think the effect will be symbolic–this should be coordinated with a well targeted and crafted campaign highlighting the plight of those affected by rogue justice.
rusnam-
In regard to your statement that “secular” societies also have various punishments for adultery, this is true, but Sura 24, Verse 2 talks about “fornication,” not just adultery. It refers to ANY two (even willing adults) engaging in fornication, who are not married with an official Islamic marriage.
Secondly, you (and many others on this thread) seemed fixated and satisfied with the idea that proof of “guilt” is extremely difficult to provide, and convictions therefore very rare. But that doesn’t excuse the law itself (prohibition of fornication), nor the proscribed punishment (public flogging). Both of these aspects are of course very unreasonable. It would be like a law that prohibits free speech, but is never actually enforced. How does the lack of enforcement justify the law in the first place?
…Or do you feel that the law and proscribed punishments ARE morally okay (if they ARE given fair Islamic due process and conviction)?
Last point: How can a person cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe from the Quran? It’s either all or nothing, isn’t it? The laws and punishments are clearly written. Only due process and requirements for an actual conviction are in question.
Kals, I agree with Rusnam. This action of the CJ is highly symbolic if nothing else. Basically it’s the legitimate courts being pitted against the Qazi courts, rule of constitutional law against rule of religious law.
If the bench rules against this, this would give us and the army legitimacy to go against these people. We have to agree that the CJ is one of the most popular people in Pakistan and Nawaz and Shahbaz, also very popular back him. So anything that him and his brother judges rule will be seen as a popular mandate. Hence against Baitullah Mehsud.
I’m religious and I highly condemn this. It gives me the creeps that this can take place in this day and age. Somebody has to stop them.
How can a person cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe from the Quran? It’s either all or nothing, isn’t it? The laws and punishments are clearly written. Only due process and requirements for an actual conviction are in question.
>>>>>>>>>>
There is an interesting legal arguement from one chap (think he lives in Sweden, name escapes me) saying that such punishments cannot be undertaken in the imperfect world and system in which we live where human error gives question to everything. Therefore only where the system is perfect/the Prophet is about/you all live in a pefect Islamic state is it justified. Well I think thats the arguement, though my memory is somewhat rusty and I’m not doing it justice.
“How can a person cherry pick what to believe and what not to believe from the Quran? ”
Colonialism and its attendant education system has resulted in a psychological inferiority complex in many educated Muslims except those who still appreciate the phase in Islamic history when Sharia punishments and a vibrant intellectual culture co-existed in the same political framework.
The same inferiority complex is responsible for embracing such a cognitively dissonant position. Muslims should own Islam in toto. The diffidence has caused a serious intellectual impasse in the Ummah-Muslims as a collective entity.
[...] have, as have scores of others been struck by the gruemsome act of public flogging of a 17-year old woman in Swat by the Taliban. The woman supposedly came out of a house with her [...]
Did anyone hear that the lady has now come out and said that she never did get flogged? Intimidation or the truth? Hmmm…
[...] ordered a police committee to investigate the controversial flogging of a teenage girl in Swat, [see CHUP's related post on the incident]. Calling the flogging a “cruel violation of fundamental rights,” Chaudhry also [...]
While the international community is raising such a fuss over the Sharia law passed by President Karzai in afghanistan there has been little pressure on Pakistani authorities for this inhuman act. The international attention on Women’s rights appears to be guided by political considerations.
http://thetrajectory.com/blogs/?p=380
So is this report accurate?
http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/the-logic-of-lawyers-movement-prevails/
Essentially the girl spurned the advances f a Taliban and got punished?
I think we should follow Attaturk’s example and put them on a boat and drown them.
Samuel Huntington states in his Clash of Civilizations that Muslims need a leader who should reject Ataturk’s legacy more aggressively like Russians have rejected that of Lenin.Does your suggestion have any intrinsic intellectual value other than the crude hatred of those who don’t agree with you. Post-colonial secular orthodoxy is worse than the Christian religious orthodoxy in its supression of its opposition-Islam.
neorient@gmail.com
[...] the monster of militancy? Are we legitimizing harsh punishments and the opression of women, [see the post about the flogging of the young girl]? Although supporters of the regulation say the changes in the legal system will speed up justice [...]
This is the actual translation of Sura 24, Verse 2 (Al Nur)
[24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD’s law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.
source: http://www.submission.org/suras/sura24.html
If she came out of her house with a guy who was not her husband but maybe her son or nephew (brother’s son, a mehram), then was she really committing Adultery??? I don’t think so!
I read this blog somewhere about Talibans and the related questions that comes to everyone’s mind… http://yello.pk/profile/blog/faraz01/i-dont-under-stand-one-basic-thing-about-taliban/1193
They are just illiterate and “Jaahil” about Islam and here they are enforcing it like they know it all.. Everyone should definitely read this blog once you read Kulsoom’s blog.
@ HGW Moreover, the verse that you mentioned has an explanation saying…
*24:2 Social pressure, i.e., public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment (see also 5:38). The lashes shall be symbolic, not severe.
Source: http://www.submission.org/suras/sura24.html