AFP Image from Express Tribune
How on earth did we get from a South Park cartoon being censored to the Lahore High Court banning Facebook?
As I wrote here a few weeks ago, Comedy Central censored the oft-controversial South Park after the show depicted the Prophet Muhammad in a bear suit, leading a fringe Islamist group Revolution Muslim to make an alleged incitement for violence against creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone. This then led fellow cartoonist Molly Norris to create the posterlike illustration “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day!” to voice her support for Parker and Stone, saying in an interview, “As a cartoonist, I just felt so much passion about what had happened.. it’s a cartoonist’s job to be non-PC.”
Her illustration against Revolution Muslim’s response and the subsequent censorship of South Park was meant to be a one-off protest. However, Jon Wellington was inspired to create a Facebook page, “Everybody Draw Muhammad Day!” which called for artists around the world to create their own depictions of Prophet Muhammad on May 20. The group claims that it is not trying to “slander the average Muslim,” adding, “We simply want to show the extremists that threaten to harm people because of their Muhammad depictions that we’re not afraid of them.”
Norris, the cartoonist the group claimed to be the inspiration behind the event, has distanced herself from the controversy, writing on her website,
I did NOT ‘declare’ May 20 to be “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day”…At any rate…my cartoon-poster, with a fake ‘group’ behind it…went viral and was taken seriously. I never started a Facebook page (I see that the two men who started the different FB pages names have now been made public). The vitriol this ‘day’ has brought out, of people who only want to draw obscene images, is offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place. Only Viacom and Revolution Muslim are to blame, so…draw them instead!
On Wednesday, in response to the Facebook group and the increasing number of images (many that do, in fact, aim to insult the religion), as well as protests on university campuses across the country, Pakistan’s Lahore High Court ordered the Pakistan Telecommunications Authority (PTA) to block Facebook across Pakistan until May 31. According to BBC News, “The lawyers’ group [that brought the petition] says Pakistan is an Islamic country and its laws do not allow activities that are ‘un-Islamic’ or ‘blasphemous.’ The judge also directed Pakistan’s foreign ministry to raise the issue at international level.”
So it seems that Comedy Central’s censorship has ultimately led to more censorship. Does anyone else sense the irony here?
It is not that I don’t think “Everybody Draw Muhammad Day!” isn’t purposefully offensive and hateful – looking at the Facebook page, the wall is littered with derogatory and ignorant statements against not just the Prophet but against all Muslims. Even if the group claims to not “slander the average Muslim,” the problem with any movement that goes viral is that the intended aim eventually becomes irrelevant, an after-thought. Wannabe “artists” are no longer concerned with the reason behind the South Park censorship, but instead use this platform to lob insults at the religion as a whole. Any sane person would tell you that’s ingredient for disaster.
But a sane person would also tell you the answer is not blocking the platform all together. First, blocking Facebook doesn’t mean the group went away, or that “Draw Muhammad Day!” was stopped altogether. Second, why does the state get to weigh in on a viral movement and subsequently make arbitrary decisions that don’t just blind Pakistan to the event but also cuts citizens off from the entire social networking website? If Pakistan reportedly has 2.5 million active Facebook users, that essentially means 2.5 million people were not given the opportunity to make the choice themselves. It essentially sends the message that the state knows what’s best for you, even if you know better. To me, that’s just as unproductive.
Freedom of speech is a tricky issue, there is no doubt about that. An anonymous blogger quoted on Norris’ website emphasized, “Fight for the right to draw Muhammad, but then decline doing so.” This is a significant (albeit still controversial) statement. Yes, people have a right to voice their opinion – getting death threats as a result just fuels the root causes behind that opinion in the first place. But to use this as an opportunity to incite and marginalize a community already on edge? That’s another thing all together. As for the Pakistani government, concentrate on the big picture. Because the LHC decision may have only exacerbated the situation further.
Sigh. This is so sad. So very sad. Those dudes that I see in the photo… I’m pretty sure they have no idea what the hell Facebook is about.
And what’s the point anyway? I mean, you can still access Facebook by using proxies. :/ http://artsyhands.com/2010/05/access-facebook-blocked-pakistan/
Right – people can still access it on the mobile phones – wasn’t there a story about the government being PO’ed at Mobilink?
This is one of the lowest things anyone could ever do. I can’t believe our stupid Judiciary actually blocked Facebook because of the offensive page. I understand that Facebook did not delete the page despite people reporting it. It’s funny how everyone wanted to deactivate their accounts to protest against the Blasphemous pages but then that wouldnt have resolved anything. Banning a social network is not going to make the matter go away. Does the judiciary actually think that people are going to go to the website and check out the blasphemous images? How will this harm us anyway? Do they think we don’t know what’s the difference between right or wrong? If they were really so concerned they would have lodged a protest at the highest level. We have certainly given them too much publicity and shot ourselves in the foot yet again. Does anyone even remember what happened after those Blasphemous cartoons were published in those Scandinavian papers? Didn’t people make a lot of noise about boycotting them etc etc? It’s funny how that issue died really fast. We could have used facebook as a social media tool to tackle this issue tactfully and yet we are so prone to be reactionaries rather than coming up with a more practical solution. People here are so emotional that if you come up with a practical answer you are automatically branded as a traitor or some enemy agent. I can’t believe I got a text message giving me instructions on how to cripple Facebook with a denial of service attack. People dont seem to realise that this is a crime and there will be consequences. Similarly creating Draw Holocaust pages will not help matters as we would doing the same thing they are. Attacking someone else’s religion is not the right thing either. We could have gone and talked to our local MPs, MNAs, CongressMen what soever to express our dismay at this issue. Maybe that would have been a bit more effective in getting the point across. Maybe we should have taken a leaf from Greenpeace UK when they initiated a successful campaign on Facebook against Nestle.
Shobz,
Good points. There has been a lot of criticism of Facebook and not deleting the group despite it being inflammatory and people lodging complaints. From what I could see some of the comments by Muslims on the page were more reactionary than productive, as was protests lodged in the form of counter-groups. If it wasn’t such a serious issue, I would say it would be a good foundation for an anthropological study of social media as a whole. The question though was who was at fault in all of this? Was it Norris who inspired Draw Muhammad Day, was it the people behind the group, was it Facebook for not stopping it, or was it the fans of the page that lobbed insults? Where does that line get drawn and who should be held accountable?
Recycled Thought has a good post on the topic as a whole: http://recycled-thought.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-has-to-wade-through-vast.html
And for a good round-up, Awab’s post for Global Voices: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/05/18/pakistan-the-draw-mohammed-day-controversy/
Well said, Kalsoom. This is drawing so much more attention to that facebook page and government censorship is never a solution.
LHC didn’t deviate from law as we have the abused blasphemy law but the question is that how banning the FB would help. This news had made headlines on all the major networks which means in future such hate groups would come up with more innovative ideas to infuriate Muslims.
Sometimes the best tactic is hiding one’s vulnerability. We should ignore such defamatory stuff. Period.
[...] Muhammad in a bear suit, leading a fringe Islamist group Revolution […] Read more at: CHUP! – Changing Up Pakistan cartoonist, censorship, controversy, creators trey parker, extremists, facebook, incitement, [...]
In response to the protests and LHC ban decision the news becomes international and the point of view got a huge audience.
Disrespecting a religion particularly targeting Islam and our beloved prophet (SAW) not for the first time like u have mentioned in another article is not extremism?
Is this freedom of speech to make fun of others beliefs?
People/blogger like you could make a major difference by raising your voice against such religious hatred and disrespect rather than criticizing the ban or boycott( whether valid or not).
I guess that’s the dilemma of freedom of speech right? Some group will inevitably get offended if freedom of speech is practiced. Targeting Islam and the prophet may be in poor taste but freedom of speech allows it. Also, if it is just about respecting any religion, then why not rise up when Catholicism or Judaism is criticized? Don’t get me wrong-I’m not supporting drawing the prophet. But I do think we need to develop a thicker skin.
“Disrespecting a religion particularly targeting Islam and our beloved prophet (SAW) not for the first time like u have mentioned in another article is not extremism?
Is this freedom of speech to make fun of others beliefs?”
Yes, thats exactly what freedom of speech is (atleast a major part of it).
Thats the point the Facebook group is trying to make. If you are offended just look away.
LHC is on crack. First of all, not allowing activities that are “un-Islamic” actually just means not allowing activities that the government does not like. Marrying girls off to the Quran, discrimination against minorities and women, etc are all un-Islamic activities. Yet, I don’t see LHC banning those or other similar activities. Second, whatever happened to Pakistan being a “democracy”? Are democracies now banning websites?
The LHC needs to focus on other things, like making sure the Women’s Protection Bill is effective and implemented properly.
Kalsoom
I am no fan of freedom of expression especially when it comes to religious beliefs. It’s a sensitive area and leads to all sorts disasters.
However I have one question for you. Browse google and you shall find thousands of websites insulting Islam Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) muslims in general. Would they ban Internet all together in Pakistan. Wikipedia still has Muhammad (pbuh) cartoons. Shouldn’t they be blocking it for pakistani users?
Ideally speaking Internet has so much blasphemy that no Pakistani should be allowed to access it. So why facebook. Why deprive millions of pakistanis because of one idiotic judgement by a person who probably has no knowledge of social networking sites.
What was even more astonishing was the fact that how people came out protesting on streets calling at another American conspiracy to distract our youth.
Where are we exactly heading?
Butterscotch, I completely agree with you – why stop at Facebook? What does blocking a website ultimately do?
If thousands of people had reported the page as abusive but the Fb admin was reluctant to remove it, the best thing is blocking the site.
Congrats……….Youtube and wikipedia are also blocked in Pakistan.
Aye up Kalsoom,
Poor old Facebook – what is it to do?
Does it behave like the post office – a passive arbiter of communication – or does it police its users like in a moderated forum? At the moment its a confused combination of both.
Sometimes it will come down on racist and other discriminatory hate speech, sometimes it won’t. Here it is used by the English (spit) Defence League – a bunch of far-right islamophobic skins who shout anti-asian slogans but hide behind an anti-jihadi banner – to organise provocative demonstrations. And now we have Everyone Draw Muhammed Day, allowing anyone who has a shitforbrains concept of who a Muslim is to show their Paint Shop Pro man-with-beard skills to anyone listening.
I suspect Facebook can take comfort in the fact that this dialemma is not only faced by it but also by broadcasters and other people in the freedom of expression business. It’s not a unique problem to them but to society as a whole. The tension between freedom of expression as a universal ideal on one hand, and human beings’ varying and complicated sense of acceptable speech on the other, is something that will always be with us. However more “advanced” as a society we become, the fact we have standards of behaviour will remain a constant, even if those standards may change over time.
This doesn’t absolve their responsibility, however, and Facebook should be more transparent as to how it takes decisions to ban and not to ban. It needs to spell out exactly what it considers to be acceptable and unacceptable so at least its position is clear. Clarity, alas, isn’t one of Facebook’s strong points.
As for the LHC – are these chaps in a publicity contest or are they judges? Tying a massive million-paged website with one brush makes them appear to be involved in the former.
Cheers, S.
Aye up Saesneg!
Thanks for the comment- I completely agree with you. Facebook in general should be a little more transparent on their “banning” policies, particularly because it seems somewhat arbitrary right now. That being said, there are SO many anti-religion, racist, ignorant groups out there but it’s significant how this one has gained SO much publicity because of the amount of negative attention it received – it almost validated the group more!
Amazing, Simply Amazing, freedom of speech is the excuse being used for hurting feelings of millions.
I say do away with the law enforcement and the judicial system so that every man/woman has the ‘freedom’ to do what ever they want.
Well, well…my 2 cents on this.
Facebook deserved this at the first place for not banning the group and the event promptly when so many people had reported it. Try this (I do not want to offend anyone, but just for the sake of experiment) : Make a group against the Holocaust and you will find that Facebook will ban you within hours, they are biased and who ever does that in the media business should lose money. I believe it will not face a huge loss, but definitely their revenue would go down as ads targeting the Pakistani market would be pulled off very soon as 2.5 million Pakistanis cannot access it. So, hopefully, loss of revenue would teach them a lesson.
Moreover, our poor LHC judges aren’t tech savvy, instead of ordering to ban the URL Link, they ordered the ISPs to ban the whole site. I believe Facebook is like a hammer, it can MAKE STUFF and break stuff as well, it depends how a user is using the tool. I am sure you all would agree, that a lot of people are doing Da’awah through the facebook. Even prominent scholars like Anthony Green, Dr. Zakir Naik, Imam Siraj Wahaj, Hamza Yousaf and many more use facebook to transmit the message of Islam in its masses. So, this is a huge loss for those muslims who were using it as a platform to spread the message of Islam.
ALHAMDULILAH, I myself was running a successful group for my organization, Human Relief Foundation, and was able to accumulate a lot of volunteers and good number of donations regularly through facebook for orphans and water hand pumps. That has now come to a stand still now. So, surely it is a loss for a lot of people in Pakistan too. But, as this country and its people are very passionate, we would not mind boycotting facebook for sometime. But, if it is a permanent one then it is a problem.
Moreover, poor Mushy lost a full constituency! Feel sad for the poor fellow…what will he do now! And I found something, facebook is quite upset over the ban, read this:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/facebook-slams-pakistan-ban-over-prophet-mohammed-contest-page/story-e6frf7jx-1225869199058
And yea one more thing!
Great work Kalsoom, you highlight the right issues at the right time!
Shahbash!
They have now suspended Blackberry services in Pakistan since FB was being accessed through this. Can you imagine? Suspending Blackberry services? We are living in the stone ages. 1 step forward, 50 back.
I believe a group of idiots deciding to make a caricature of the prophet (pbuh) does not hurt our faith!Our faith is stronger than such nonsense. In his lifetime, the prophet was ridiculed, persecuted and driven out of town for his faith and belief but his response was tolerance. Because he knew better.
Anyhow, the LHC(and us too) needs to realise that if we want to take a REAL stand – stand united against REAL issues, such as war, hunger, and poverty
We have done what we can, we reported the group as per facebook group policy nothing happened but it has been noticed in the past that facebook blocks pages which spread hatred
since the ban is temporary it should be appreciated by each and everyone of us, otherwise the days are not far enough, those who want to niqab by themselves, we will be saying to them don’t use veil otherwise you will be showing your weak point, it’s a matter of principle and sovereignty and LHC ban has asked govt officials to speak to facebook officials, very understandable in my opinion and we should be happy about it that things are moving in right direction.
Regards
its just a sad sad state we are in.
i am a muslim and call me naive,simple whatever,i will never like or appreciate it if somebody tries to impose their ideas on me.i will distance my self from those websites which make fun of ANY religious personality.i will not use facebook on that day which will earn some revenue on the basis of making fun of SOMEONE who i really like and admire and try to follow.
why do people do such stuff on the basis of freedom of speech.i think it feels like somewhere a group of people sat together and thought.wow lets offend millions of people.how cool would that be.and poof.they start drawing cartoons,saying nasty stuff etc etc.
again i say we are in a sad,sad state.
@beyond :” i am a muslim and call me naive,simple whatever,i will never like or appreciate it if somebody tries to impose their ideas on me.”
Caricaturing Mohammed is blasphemous for Muslims. When you don’t allow non-muslims to caricature Mohammed, you are in a sense imposing your ideas on others. Exactly, the kind of thing you would not like to be done to you.
EXACTLY.
Well if they can ban the burqas, we can ban facebook. Plain and Simple, Tit for Tat.
Guys and girls, Everyone has mentioned above that banning is not the solution, why facebook, why not wiki or google., it wont solve the issue and so on…
Excuse me first of all you all stand alone against those who are united. You sit in your houses infront of computer screens (like I’m doing it) and start admitting your weaknesses that you cannot bring the change and this is exactly why we couldnt bring any positive change so far cause our youth is full of crap in there heads that they cant change a thing…
Secondly (one of the guy above said that we should point it out to the MPs & MNAs or so) so they can raise this issue at international level… Excuse me once again for being so blunt. You dont have any leadership that stands by your side “Sub Bikao mall hai” we are just so blind and stupid that we elect them so that they can fill there pockets with our money and leave the country…
Thirdly, about why facebook… I remember a quote saying “oo God why me, and the voice came who else you have in your mind…” and that is exactly my point, it has to start from some where… let it be facebook, and why not after all starting it on facebook is a plus for the issue, after all it is one of the top social media website.
Fourthly, Yes we Pakistani’s have several other serious issues to take care of, we have target killings going on, we have external and internal negative elements to take control, we have 99% bad politicians that we should kick on there butts and send them to there supportive countries empty handed so they never come back again, but after this all try to take it this way, you are a bad person, you have all the bad habits of the world, and someone comes out of the dark and starts saying bad words to your parents… now the question is will you think it (like above mentioned tone) that because you are bad already… so let them say bad things to my parents… OR teach them a lesson…. now here comes the religious sensitivity that shouldnt be touched in any way. Our Prophet(PBUH) is a person that not only our parents but even our lives are not better then him(PBUH). and yet you are saying why why why… dont you get it.
This is exactly what they want, to kill the sensitivity of Muslims about this issue. Like they did with Christians, you can say anything bad to the respects Prophet Jesus and they wont mind a thing, so they have totally lost there identity, and this is exactly what I feel in above comments.
Guys you admit it or not, its a war going on from centuries. Either you are a warrior or you are just a person who want his life saved and dont care for the rest… which one you want to be?
Now the most important issue and I’m concerned about this issue more than the startup (which is banning facebook). Starting is one of the most easy task… keeping the positive pace is hardest of all…
We individually and as group should know what will be the second point and how it will get harsher if they wont take it serious… and this is where all the international affairs come in handy, there has to be a positive outcome through positive actions.
The only worry I have is once this issue will go in the hands of those who are already on the streets (the extremist Mullas), this is where it will get worse and wont be heard by the international lobby… so it will eventually die.
So in summery, we are Muslims, we have to grow in a way so the whole world grows with us (not the Taliban way – which is to kill who ever comes your way) we should get involved in positive debates and bring awareness to the world about our religion and the importance of peace in it. we should teach the world that constructive positive freedom is always welcomed but destructive (or playing with the emotions of people in the name of freedom of speech / draw) is not at all welcomed but for the sake of Muslims, but any single religion out there, be it Hindu, Christian, Jew, Buddha, or what ever… all have a right to live and all should have a constructive approach… and thats it.
Honour The Prophet Muhammad Campaign
A facebook page/event has been set up for May the 20th, and this event has been called draw Muhammad day. So as a response, this page has been created, for Muslims to come and defend the honour of Muhammad peace be upon him. The way we shall respond is not by violence, or threats, or insults. No, we shall respond back with wisdom, and with the most important tool we have, the truth.
The prophet Muhammad himself stated that the strong Muslim was the one who could control his anger, and control his emotions, therefore all Muslims should follow this example.
Responding with threats does not defend the prophet, rather it simply feeds the propaganda, and makes them say ‘look! You see , we are right, the Muslims are violent!’ Therefore as Muslims we should be better.
On May 20th we shall release our own video, a video which shall compile some of the greatest examples of the prophet Muhammad. You to can take part, by posting several Islamic narrations that showed the kindness, mercy, humbleness, generosity, and sincerity of the prophet Muhammad. If you choose to do more, and want to make your own video, then do so!
Let us show everyone what a great man Muhammad (S.A.W) was, and rather than mocking him, he should be praised and given the utmost respect. So join up, and forward this group to your friends, so they join as well.
So come, let us defend the honour of Muhammad peace be upon him, and let us do this with dignity, respect, and wisdom
http://www.facebook.com/HonourProphetMuhammad
read more detailed info about the event:
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/05/18/pakistan-the-draw-mohammed-day-controversy/
Few points! First of all does Lahore High Court have the jurisdiction of imposing a nationwide ban? Should this not come from Supreme Court? And why did the court not deem to consult any civil society group? The verdict was hasty and one-sided and lacks insight. The whole internet domain have been disturbed by this, and many of those who wanted to protest through face book are being deprived of their inherent right
Earlier this month world press freedom day was celebrated: http://www.individualland.com/blog/?p=403
What happened to our freedom to access information? And while we find time for such trivial matters terrorists such as Hafiz Saeed and Azhar Masood roam around freely!
The court’s decision to usurp the authority to censor the internet is a deplorable act of tyranny…
I hope this event reduces the credibility of Pakistani lawyers and courts, but in all likelihood it will actually do the opposite.
Rather than simply opting to not visit facebook, Pakistani citizens would prefer to have their inalienable rights stripped away from them by a nanny government.
It’s an absolutely sickening precedent.
I believe in freedom of speech 100%…and those who have the privilege of free speech also have a responsibility to be sensitive about what they are saying. One should have the ‘right’ to say what they want, when they want…but if your words incite riots, killings, and cause another to lose his/her freedom of speech (as many Pakistani’s have thru the fb ban)…are you being responsible with your privilege?
Case in point; if we all have the right to say whatever we want, why can’t one board an airplane and say the words “bomb” or “blow up” without having an air-marshal kick your ass, force the plane to land, detain and interrogate you and probably charge you with some deviated clause from the Patriot Act? We understand that this is all due to sensitivities that came about after 9/11 and we understand that saying such a thing would cause people a lot of grief and frustration…so we don’t do it!
Similarly, why can’t these cartoonist understand that though they have the ‘right’ to draw whatever they want, but they should avoid drawing stuff that will cause grief and frustration to potentially 1.2 billion people world-over!
So you believe X is true, but you also believe X is false? Great
HGW there is no inalienable right to free speech in Pakistan. Free speech is already subject to a number of restrictions due to (among other things) articles 295A-C of the penal code which is what was cited by the LHC when coming to its decision. Usually articles 295A-C affect people from minorities (although one can argue that they’ve had a damaging effect on society as a whole). But in this case, they’ve impacted a more vocal (and empowered) section of the majority, so that’s why we’re seeing the protests, which is a good thing, I guess.
The right of free speech is inalienable with the birth of any human being and pre-exists ANY government authority. Even a democratically elected government does not have the moral authortiy to remove the right of free speech.
Freedom of speech is an extension of your right to the 100% ownership of your own life. It can in no way be subject to seizure. No man or group of men can morally claim ownership over another’s life by regulating speech, thoughts, religious expression, etc..not by even one iota. Free speech is given with birth, regardless of the government under which you’re born. Governments are called into existence for the sole purpose of protecting rights such as speech.
Lastly, I hear a lot of talk about some “responsibility” citizens have with regard to free speech. There is absolutely no such “responsibility.”
No speaker is accountable for the hurt feelings of others resulting from their speech. Nobody has the right to live without hearing offensive things. Victims of offensive hate speech DO NOT have the moral authority remove the rights of the speakers, no matter how offensive and inflammatory the content. This is absolutely fundamental.
sorry HGW! shows what a dumbo i am about philosophy, it took me a second to figure out you were arguing from a natural rights libertarian perspective.
in that case, yeah, you are right. But I do wonder how on earth natural rights libertarians can even begin to comment on the mess that is Pakistan and its treatment of individual rights :/
Can you specify where exactly this mantra of free speech is being practiced ?
Whether or not governments usurp the authority to block certain inalienable liberties is irrelevant to the existence of said liberties.
Surah 115:1 “Verily has Allah not given you a keyboard and tower, and the magic window, so that thee may educate oneself past an imbecilic doctrine”
Surah 115:2 “Do you not have free will to choose your own path in life and if thee wants to go to the book of faces then that is what thee should do”
Surah 115:3 “Should you disagree with freedom of expression, then thee is quite obliged to cut off only thine own head in protest”.
What is surrah 115??? The last surrah is 114!!
http://www.intratext.com/x/eng0027.htm
No results found for “Verily has Allah not given you a keyboard and tower, and the magic window, so that thee may educate oneself past an imbecilic doctrine”
Busted….
Surah 115 was left out by the editors. It was rediscovered recently.
Frankly, if I weren’t a Pakistani Muslim that one day wanted to go home, I would draw Prophet pictures JUST to a get kick out of whatever stupid shit Pakistani Muslims would do in response.
Frankly Raza, who needs enemies when you’ll be friend.
its either you are not muslim or you take it as granted…
Wait did you just respond angrily and irrationally to a joke? Either I must write for south park, or you must be Pakistani.
Calm down, chief. Drink some lassi.
Even after Lassi in Baan Glass, I come to a conclusion that you take it as granted… the guys out there are united agianst making fun of our (& Allah’s) most beloved prophet (PBUH) and you are enjoying and telling jokes… nice.
This is why they dare to put us down cause we dont take things seriously… we are jokers…
Thanks PTA for throwing out the facebook. Was a waste of time.
Can anyone tell me why FaceBook does not block the page ? even after repeated page block requests. What other option left.
No one is going to die without facebook. My request to all is deactive ur accounts from the facebook. We were living before and we will live without it.
Oh yes please, go ahead and deactivate your account. One less irrational person is good, not just for Facebook but also the Muslim community on Facebook as a whole.
for those who believe on the freedom of speech…
Someone came and asked Imam Ali (AS) that how free we are?
Imam Ali (AS) replied you want a long answer or short? He said short. So Imam asked him to stand on one feet, he did so, then Imam (AS) asked him to pick your other feet as well, on this he replied I cannot, I’ll fell down. The Imam said this is our freedom, you are free to decide which feet to pick up and which one to stand on, but you cannot pick both…
Learn your so called freedom from this life time lesson, there is no freedom where you can do what ever you want to… with greater power comes greater responsibilities… What freedom you are talking about, a freedom to hurt.
Let me put it other way round, NO ONE HAS A RIGHT TO HURT ANYONE. and the one who does, deserves life time lesson…
I dont understand our stupid youth just cant live without facebook even for a single day. By the way whats the use of facebook in Pakistani culture, theres no constructive use in pakistan for this stupid website. Its just some couldn’t contact with there girlfriends / boyfriends and some lost there virtual money because there farmville plants are dead… so stupid, ban it for life time, so the youth might come out in real world and face the sunlight, and do something constructive for the blessed country Pakistan… instead of farming on facebook, or making aquariums…
It’s not for you (or your random fairy tales) to decide if other people have total freedom or not. You can restrict your own freedom if you want, but you can’t force anyone else follow YOUR personal beliefs.
Speech can not physically HURT anyone, by definition. Offending someone is not a crime. Someone who has been offended by speech has absolutely no recourse, and have to deal with the annoyance in a nonviolent way.
It’s every citizen’s duty to defend themselves against tyrants like you who wish to strip their rights away and impose your morality and beliefs on them. The true patriots are those who practice civil disobedience and circumvent the illegal government censor and access facebook anyway.
Those who are participating in Everyone Draw Mohammad day deserve the highest of honors for defending their right to speak freely.
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
— Thomas Jefferson
Everyone Draw Mohammad day is an example of this
HGW,
This reply is for all your posts.
I do agree what you say completely. Its hard to sympathize with people who threaten with violence.
People often point out denying Holocaust is punishable in Europe and say “double standards”. But, since when Europe became the flag bearer for Freedom of Speech? I agree that Europe has excellent value system but Freedom of Speech is not Europe’s alone.
I believe we should deal with this issue considering a hypothetical Ideal society in mind. In a Ideal society, Freedom of Speech is the Freedom to verbally hurt anyone but being mature and conscientious enough to not go down that path.
One can deny Holocaust as much as they want but at the end of the day you are committing an act which might emotionally hurt someone; an act which shows the ugliness of your character. Mere words cannot really hurt anyone physically and hence there should be no boundaries.
First of all It is not a fairy tale but the practical lesson from the TRUE Muslim follower who have given life to Islam.
Secondly you are living in a fairy tale, you better wake up and face the reality about the freedom, this is just a stupid illusion that west want to impose specially on muslim societies. You never wanted to born in the year when you born, you were not free to decide and yet you talk of freedom, you never wanted to be born in pakistan but yet you were born there and yet you talk of freedom, you never wanted to do so many things but yet you did that and again you talk of freedom, you want to do so many things but yet you cant and still you talk about freedom, we all will die sooner or later even when we dont want to and yet we are so stupid to talk about freedom. You are living in fairy tale Mr. better come out of it before its to late, you were not free to decide your birth, you wont be free to decide your death. and everything in between…
yes the only freedom we have is to chose between this or that, yet cant be sure of the outcome if it will be exactly as we thought…
you have the ability to change, its up to you if you change it into good or bad, if you have the ability to talk then you better have sense of emotions as well so your talk wont hurt anyone, cause even dog have this talking ability without the sense, be human, do respect, get respect.
sorry for this very harsh example but to make your freedom understand-able I had to…. you are totally free to hit your mother… the choice is yours… its totally in your capabilities… but yet at-least I’m not free this is the sensitivity that we should all have in all matters.
With greatest power comes greatest responsibility…. Have power! be responsible…
What are you talking about?
Freedom doesn’t mean everyone has a genie in a bottle that grants them a million wishes. Freedom does NOT allow you to hit your mother, that’s called violence.. I’m amazed by your fundamental misunderstanding of liberty as a concept. I’m guessing you didn’t study history of western societies?
Freedom simply means have the right to live your life however you want, so long as your conduct is non violent.
For example, I consider your opinions to be extremely vile and immoral hate-speech promoting slavery, yet you’re free to say whatever you want! Even if you do support enslavement and violent religious fairy tales.
So unless you VOLUNTEER to stop supporting evil, I can’t force you to change your thoughts, because thinking and speaking are nonviolent acts. Get it?
I’m very much aware of your so called western society and there definition of freedom of speech as well as there definition about democracy and somehow David Icke have played quite a major role to understand there society very well… And I can bet even you cannot define a thin line between freedom of speech and violence because a speech without brains in it can bring violence in society. Those who have freedom of speech with active brains in it are very rare and they dont touch religions this is why they are literates. These people who think that making fun of someones believe is called freedom of speech, they are the most illiterate people of the society who trigger the violence and then laugh at deaths which were caused by them… and people like you remain in total miss-understanding about whos right and whos wrong…
Your so called carriers of liberty are actually siting over the land of Indians and others have been involved in extreme violent inhuman slavery acts for africans. This is the history of your so called liberty, you better stop reading American British approved syllabus, so that you can read the truth… (well almost)
Let me cut this whole crap short, try it. go at facebook and make a group called “Lets make fun of stupid lie called Holocaust” and try to make it active in a way that it takes attention of FaceBook or likes, I can bet you’ll be suspended within no time… and the people who’ll stand against you are those are are talking about freedom of speech today (people like you)… they are in power cause they are in united and we are so weak becuase we have people like you…
By the way I dont see any violent act in that above mentioned speech, I dont know from which angle you found it out…
Again, it’s not for YOU to decide whether people deserve/are responsible enough to speak. They have the right to speak whether you like it or not.
People don’t derive their right to speak from popular opinion. They get that right from birth even if its not popular.
And not that it matters in a philosophical sense, but this concept is also confirmed by the US Bill of Rights and the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
@rebeldesinger: do you get this worked up when Islam is used as an excuse for terrorism, subjugating women, killing of infidels among other things.
Why the educated and peace loving muslims hush hush those topics but are very vocal and unambiguous here?
I believe both hurt your faith equally.
Oh, and the topic of starting a “Everybody draw Holocaust” page on Facebook. Please do a search on Facebook. Such a page already exists (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Everybody-draw-Holocaust/122725061089960?ref=search&sid=1366290046.1741293439..1)
@Aditya Sehgal
You are absolutely right when you said that Islam is been used, but in my opinion when someone kills at the name of islam, he is not only using but even abusing it as well. This is not islam, but it is exactly the same kind of behavior on which I’m writing here, my whole theory of life is to Live and let live. I believe there is no freedom as per general definition or lets say it is been polluted with the current definition.
I believe the freedom is when you have the right to speak (or as @HGW said a birth right) but before you open your mouth you put your brains in it and say what you think will help the society, will help building relation, will be constructive is a freedom of speech. To me having sensitivity for other human beings (keep in mind the only criteria I’m telling here is human being apart from what ever religion he is) respecting there faiths, respecting there positive priorities, respecting there believes is what we should all keep in our very first priorities in no matter what we do.
The only key to success (or peace) is to work together against those who bring chaos in the society ( be it muslims terrorists or western terrorist) take them out so that we and our kids can live in total peace of mind and soul.
The only joy is to laugh with people not on people… avoid freedom of speech that gives you right to make fun of someone, if they have problem with our (muslims) sensitivity about this issue they should solve it with positive debate. And this behavior goes for not only them but for muslims as well, we should tolerate each other so that we can live and grow together…
Thanks for the “Everybody draw Holocaust” page, it is created after this whole vibe… any how lets see how long it will go…
You can avoid saying what you want to avoid saying. Other’s don’t have to avoid saying anything.
And free speech advocates can continue to draw pictures of Muhammad as a violent pedafile.
Why? Because you try to stop them! The more you try to stop them, the more your little fairly tales will be subject to ridicule.
Once you accept their right to draw anything they want, they will stop and become more sensitive. It’s hard to feel sympathy for people who threaten violence.
What has to be done, has to be done. Just because they wont stop doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop them…
I have a daughter 2+ years, she sometimes (while sitting in kitchen) demands to have knife… I’ll never give here until I’ll be sure she knows how to handle… and I believe if you’ll be in this scenario you’ll do the same… you’ll stop even if your kid will force you…
So again as I said giving a freedom of speech to someone who doesnt know how to use it, is disastrous… and thats exactly the point of Islam… freedom of speech is ok but you should be able to understand the limitations which comes as package… its like giving a car to someone who dont know driving…
You should be enough mature to handle the freedom of speech, and so far it is been used by those who dont understand the limitations of it…
You might again say it is the birth right (even when we all know no kid can start talking after birth) or you might say there are no limitations (which again an false idea of yours) when you drive you are free to run over people or stop… yet we choose to stop… thats exactly what I mean by limiting yourself… having right of freedom of speech doesnt mean you have a right to play with the emotions of people, you should know your limits… and those limits will be given to you by your own awake conscious… (if its awake)…
Any how, already wasted a lot of time trying to prove my point… cant do more. My point is still clear, live and let live, get rid of those who believe on living but dont want others to live… either muslims, christians, atheist, hindus, buddhas, sikhs, human… to achieve eternal peace…
Thanks for not understanding or miss understanding… I can only give you advice but I’m not obliged to give you understanding…
@rebel : i am not sure why but i am not able to answer to your response to my response !! So, i am going to reply here.
You said : “I believe the freedom is when you have the right to speak (or as @HGW said a birth right) but before you open your mouth you put your brains in it and say what you think will help the society, will help building relation, will be constructive is a freedom of speech.”
What you are asking is very very subjective. What might be reasonable to your mind may not be reasonable to mine. A long time ago, people use to believe that Earth was the center of the Universe. It was blasphemous to think or say otherwise. Take that example and apply it to what you are asking us to do.
As George Bernard Shaw said somewhere ” The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
I understand and appreciate where you are coming from. However, freedom of speech should be and must be non-negotiable. Only then, there is a chance of progress.
To take forward your daughter handling the knife example. Lets assume, she got hold of a knife. What would be your reaction? Would you threaten her with vile consequences, with death threats or would you try and educate her? As HGW said, its difficult to sympathize with people who threaten violence.
If i offend you, you offend me back. Its that simple.
For the sake of living in peace and harmony we have to respect each other, even if this results in us not exercising some of our inalienable freedoms. If we don’t get this basic idea, it can result in violence. Why increase the risk of violence? If an idea or philosophy has merit it will succeed on it’s own merit.
“He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.”
Benjamin Franklin
@HGW
I totally understand your point that people who are offended by the free speach of another do not have any recourse…but I wanna ask you this: (and sorry for this sounding so retarded, but I am somewhat in a hurry right now)….
Ali tells Bob that if you insult my prophet, I will kill Sam…and upon hearing the insult, Ali kills Sam, do you think Bob should continue with that “free speech”? What if Ali kills 5 people? Should Bob not realize that his free speech cost 5 lives?
(Like I said, not the best way to phrase the scenario, but its early and I havnt had my coffee yet
Your question has a very simple answer. He is morally wrong who has committed the act of violence. Morality ends where force or violence against another begins.
Bob’s speech did not cost 5 lives – it was Ali’s act of violence. The motivation for the violence is TOTALLY irrelevant. Under NO circumstances is it EVER morally okay to use force of violence against another human being in an offensive nature, period. Not even if you’re REALLY angry… Seems like this should be pretty basic!
Bob was living his life in a nonviolent way and and has every right to say the most horrible things he can possible think of, and nobody can morally FORCE him to stop. Bob did not use force against anyone else.
Reminds me of an Everyone Draw Mohammad cartoon i saw captioned
“We don’t come to kill you in the name of a god, we simply come to annoy you with our freedom of speech”
i total support the LHC decision. If Facebook didn’t ban the page then they must face financial loss as well. We don’t need such freedom of speech rights when they hurt billions of Muslims around the world. You can say what ever you want but Billions of Muslims around the world support the ban.
I am a female writer and MBA from Karachi, Pakistan. I must appreciate what you have written, your meticulous thinking and talent shone through all the way. Honestly just browsing through good blogs and intelligent writers like you to join their blog and humbly request to join(follow/susbscribe) mine to listen to YOUR VIEWS.
Don’t expect any nosy friendship. Kindly, just read my BLOGS and my facebook profile(whenever it gets activated ..hehehe) on my blog footer once!
http://www.relationships-catgirl.blogspot.com/
http://societal-demons.blogspot.com/2010/04/www-what-went-wrong.html
Opinions like this that help generate popular support in the US for war against Muslim countries. One can easily understand why.
What I don’t understand is why react to the page at all. Page got so much attention because if there was one comment appreciating the image there were 10 other damning it. I was just searching, there are at least 3 pages which are anti jesus which reads “beep Jesus”…why did it not get any attention? because no body knows. The day you start reacting everybody knows and that is what Pakistani judiciary did.
Those “beep jesus” type pages don’t get any attention because Jesus fanatics don’t threaten violence against people who make fun of them.
The reason for Everyone Draw Muhammad day is not just to be insensitive.
It’s to take a stand against a restriction on free speech that is imposed through violence!
@ Mustafain Meghani – Molly Norris, Trey Parker and Matt Stone. Which of these names sound Hindu to you? which of them sound Zionist? And who are Hindu Zionists?(hahaha…too much Zaid Hamid has poisoned ur brain…Hindus dont have a concept of a Zion…do u even know who zionists are?).
Let me assure you that the world was very much alive and okay before Prophet Muhammed was born, and will continue to do fine even if an entire religious community is absent…ANY community…mine, urs or theirs. No community, religion or holy book is absolutely necessary for the betterment of the world.
Your prophet is holy to u, and you can respect him all you want. But it is quite another thing to expect others to respect your prophet. Your prophet may not be holy to me, he may be just another man to me, or worse even. I do not ask you to disrespect ur prophet, so how can u ask me to respect him?
So just like u have the freedom to revere Mr.X whom u beleive is good, you should respect the freedom of others who beleive Mr.X is an extremist and want to critisize him. If you issue death threats and classify people who dont think like you as ‘Kuffars’ etc, you only potray ur narrow mindedness.
“But the problem here is not that rights cannot be pushed too far, but that the whole case is discussed in terms of a vague and wooly “freedom of speech” rather than in terms of the rights of private property. Suppose we analyze the problem under the aspect of property rights. The fellow who brings on a riot by falsely shouting “fire” in a crowded theater is, necessarily, either the owner of the theater (or the owner’s agent) or a paying patron. If he is the owner, then he has committed fraud on his customers. He has taken their money in exchange for a promise to put on a movie or play, and now, instead, he disrupts the show by falsely shouting “fire” and breaking up the performance. He has thus welshed on his contractual obligation, and has thereby stolen the property — the money — of his patrons and has violated their property rights.
Suppose, on the other hand, that the shouter is a patron and not the owner. In that case, he is violating the property right of the owner [p. 44] as well as of the other guests to their paid-for performance. As a guest, he has gained access to the property on certain terms, including an obligation not to violate the owner’s property or to disrupt the performance the owner is putting on. His malicious act, therefore, violates the property rights of the theater owner and of all the other patrons. There is no need, therefore, for individual rights to be restricted in the case of the false shouter of “fire.” The rights of the individual are still absolute; but they are property rights. The fellow who maliciously cried “fire” in a crowded theater is indeed a criminal, but not because his so-called “right of free speech” must be pragmatically restricted on behalf of the “public good”; he is a criminal because he has clearly and obviously violated the property rights of another person.”
Read more: For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto – Murray N. Rothbard
http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp#ixzz0oxShfPes
HGW,
Keep up the good fight my friend, but I’m afraid in this instance even brick walls would be more malleable/responsive. It’s a sad day when something like this gets pious Muslims worked up to such a rage but not the recent report of a teenaged girl raped in Lahore for the past four months or the inaction of the government re flooding in Hunza which will displace thousands of people or even the indirect taxation via the VAT…the list goes on and on…yet they reserve their rage/bans/demonstrations for this. The mind truly boggles.
Nicely articulated points. But the fact remains that the roots of all these issues is the element of intolerance and violence slowly injected into our society by the extremists Mullah’s. They ‘sensationalize’ an issue to the limits that it becomes a life and death scenario. I believe that there is much learning we can do from these happenings and move forward with a zeal to be more liberal and tolerant in our approaches.
Hi Kalsoom,
You are spot on !! I hope you dint receive any threats. I totally agree with you and to be frank South Park make fun of literally everybody they dint even leave Obama and they made fun of Buddha in some episodes. The point here is no other religion took it as seriously as some Muslim guys took it. I am not saying they are not offensive, they are very offensive some times and nobody can deny that but the fact is more reactive such groups react to these ignorable things more you see from of them. What is unfortunate in Pakistan that Government itself took a very hurry bury step instead of leading by an example, I donno if Talibans made them to do it…did they?
Nice point Kalsoom people like you make world feel that even Muslims are good and thinking people
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Peace….n Love!
Chaitanya.